Moderator: Welcome to tonight's special event: "Copyrights - part 1" with Bonnie Landsberger with Moonlight Design
Alan: Welcome to tonight's special event:
Alan: Tonight's special event will start with a 30 minute interview, then we will open it up for questions from the audience for the second half hour.
Alan: Throughout the event all questions submitted to the stage, will go to an off screen moderator, to allow for grouping of questions
Alan: Our guest tonight Bonnie Landsberger with Moonlight Design
Alan: Tonight we are going to discuss:
"Copyrights - Part 1"
Alan: Welcome Bonnie
Bonnie: thanks
Alan: Sorry for the delay....
Alan: So how did you get into copyright topics?
Bonnie: I began studying them as an artist in the early 70's
Alan: Have you seen any changes in awareness over the years?
Bonnie: It's the time when laws weren't very strict and problems were everywhere
Bonnie: Yes, I've seen many changes for the better as far as the artist's rights are concerned.
Bonnie: But too many people are not as aware of these copyrights and innocently break the laws
Alan: so where do you want to begin with this topic?
Bonnie: In our industry it must be observed, and we need to learn all we can.
Bonnie: Where do I want to begin? Gosh, what do you want to know? ;-)
Alan: tell us Bonnie... we're all ears
Bonnie: :-) Well, the first thing any embroiderer or designer should do is read my EU course. :-)
Alan: good one!
Bonnie: Is it still available?
Alan: yup
Alan: or if not I will make it so
Bonnie: And of course, any new embroiderer should check for the basics of knowing what to tell customers, etc., and say no, when necessary.
Bonnie: If a customer comes in and wants a logo digitized that you know is a corporate or copyrighted work, you need to retain permission in writing from the copyright holder/owner.
Alan: are there any standardized forms?
Bonnie: Forms that an embroiderer can give the customer to sign? Such as an indemnification statement?
Alan: yeah those
Bonnie: Yes. Off hand, I'm not sure where to get one, except by way of a lawyer who could help write one up. Do you know Alan?
Alan: I am not familiar with any source at the moment... but sounds like a business opportunity
Bonnie: You're always open to new opportunities. Better check to see if it's copyrighted first. lol! Actually, I don't think you can copyright a form if it's general.
Alan: copyright a copyright form... I bet you could
Alan: now if it's the legal form from the US Library of Congress.... that's another story
Bonnie: Last I checked, you couldn't copyright a form, but if you make it special in some way, possibly. But, I do know that you should have your customers sign some sort of form that will waive any possible problems in regard to copyrights.
Alan: I don't need anymore ventures in my life
Bonnie: It may or may not save you if there is a suit brought, but it does help a lot.
Bonnie: No, Alan, you're a very busy man already!
Alan: I'll have to ask NNEP... at one time they were going to put a package of forms for new embroiderers together, don't know if they did
Bonnie: Yes, I heard that -- possibly from you.
Alan: now if we can hear it from them... ;-)
Bonnie: We really should have that type of thing available somewhere in this industry.
Alan: okay.... new project, your in charge!
Bonnie: In the mean time, even a simple paper with a statement and your customer's signature will be good.
Alan: what are some of the pit-falls or mis-understandings about copyrights?
Bonnie: What was that last question Alan?
Alan: what are some of the pit-falls or mis-understandings about copyrights?
Bonnie: Misunderstandings are everywhere. Mostly folks feel they can use anything -- like stuff they grew up with, i.e., Micky Mouse.
Bonnie: They fail to realize that in order to do that, they'd have to get permission from Disney.
Alan: Is Mickey Mouse for example a copyright, or trademark... and what exactly is the difference?
Bonnie: And Disney is one company that only goes thru a licensing agreement.
Bonnie: Both.
Alan: great.... so what are copyright and/or trademarks then
Bonnie: A copyright is what the artist has on the art they've created. A trademark is a mark of a co. and must be earned....
Bonnie: After a logo or piece of art represents a co. for a period of time, it becomes a trademark.
Bonnie: Am I making sense?
Alan: I think so, what time period for trademarks\
Bonnie: That's a tough question and I can't answer it immediately off hand.
Bonnie: I do know it must prove itself in X amount of time to be affiliated with a company who is trying to claim the trademark.
Bonnie: Mickey Mouse is a trademark, of course, of Disney.
Bonnie: But the character is also copyrighted by the Disney Co.
Bonnie: The Nike little swirl is also a trademark of Nike.
Bonnie: When we see those images, we automatically know what co. it represents.
Bonnie: This is how it's determined as a trademark.
Alan: I have seen recently major confusion on car logos. Local dealers wanting them on apparel with their dealership name on them
Bonnie: Oh my -- that's a new problem. GM is buckling down.
Bonnie: And other car manufacturers are following suit.
Alan: turns out most car companies have their own contractors, and want local dealerships to only go through them
Bonnie: Right.
Alan: My understanding you can use the brand name, but not the logo
Alan: like Montgomery Cheverolet
Bonnie: Actually, I'm uncertain of all the particulars, right now, but I do know that we can no longer embroider something like the Chevy Chevron like we used to without a problem
Bonnie: I also know that GM has insisted that Dakota Collectibles and GN and other stock houses remove their vehicles from their stock inventory.
Alan: the local dealership should know this but often plays ignorant of their contract with their automotive partner
Bonnie: At one time, they would allow dealerships to use the logo with their own biz name, but I don't know if that is still ok.
Alan: not that I have seen recently
Bonnie: I've recently been asked to digitize a car for a dealership, and because I'm unsure of all this I turned the work down. I refuse to take chances. I will wait for a letter of authorization from GM. :-)
Alan: It is hard to turn down biz, but better than loosing your total biz
Bonnie: And that is probably the biggest copyright problem. People are afraid of losing biz if they turn down something they're unsure of.
Alan: we were doing a copyrighted logo once when the licensing company came in with lawyers and the police
Alan: If we wouldn't have had our letter of authority, we would have been in big trouble
Bonnie: I digitized a beautiful DQ logo for the local DQ guy and if it weren't for our letter of authorization from the DQ manager, they would've taken more than the files and the garments that had been sewn.
Bonnie: Even the managers and franchise owners don't understand all of their rights.
Alan: or some times play ignorant I think
Bonnie: You can't trust their word. You must always gain some sort of letter that will help your case.
Bonnie: Yes, but even in ignorance, the law can clip you for at least a $500 fine.
Alan: However if you have a letter of authority, on letterhead with that logo, you will be pretty safe, as you have done your part, and the culprit is the guy with the letterhead
Bonnie: Yes, absolutely. IF it's from the right authority.
Bonnie: Like if it's a franchise, you must get the letter from the franchise headquarters, not the business manager.
Alan: But you can't spend your entire day tracking this stuff down, so you have to draw the line somewhere
Bonnie: Sure, but that's when you tell your client, who may be the biz manager to retain that info for you.
Alan: right.... and don't go forward without it
Alan: Let's open the floor to questions
Bonnie: Or, you could do it yourself, but if it were me, I'd add a service charge.
Moderator: Audience member says: "What is the harm of the dealer using their name with the logo of the brand of cars they are selling. I would think this would be free advertising for the manufacturer."
Bonnie: It used to be that way, up until a few months ago. GM has started coming down on folks.
Moderator: Audience member says: "Lets say I own a Ford Mustang. Can I take a picture of MY car and digitize it to sew on my jacket?"
Bonnie: The facts are a little unclear. However, I do know that they will send a letter of authority if you want a GM logo sewn on your new GM car seats. :-)
Bonnie: Missed the last question Alan -- sorry.
Alan: Lets say I own a Ford Mustang. Can I take a picture of MY car and digitize it to sew on my jacket?"
Bonnie: Wow. Good question. I can't answer that, BUT, I do know who you could ask. Ask the legal dept. of Ford.
Moderator: Audience member says: "So, when you did the DQ Logo, you should have gotten permission from headquarters?"
Bonnie: Yes, but actually, they would've said no. They have their own embroidery companies.
Bonnie: Some franchises do, some don't.
Moderator: Audience member says: "How do you know that a letter from the Franchise manager would be enough....and that only the Corporate office can give permission?"
Bonnie: A letter from the franchise mgr. is NOT enough. You should either have them show you their contract where it says they have the right to use that logo in print or stitches, and if it does not specify this, then you must retain a letter from headquarters
Moderator: Audience member says: "Then why did you accept the letter for the DQ Manager...or was that before you knew what you know now?"
Bonnie: The company I worked for wasn't aware of these laws -- it was back in 1990 or so.
Bonnie: They ASSUMED it was ok, if the mgr. said so. He was trying to save bucks by not going thru the DQ emb. co.
Bonnie: That's when they came to me and started asking me what I knew about copyrights and learned a hard lesson well. I also learned. It was the earlier years.
Moderator: Audience member says: "Once you have the letter of Auth. Do you have update it yearly?"
Bonnie: Not to my knowledge.
Bonnie: As long as you have that letter, you should be ok.
Alan: It depends on the letter... we had one once that was very specific as to it's term, and how many items it covered
Bonnie: It doesn't hurt to check with legal dept.'s of companies, even when you're sure it's ok. Yes, you're right Alan -- it depends on what dates might be specified.
Alan: remember the lawyers have to eat too!
Moderator: Audience member says: "That would be more of a contract"
Bonnie: And also, that letter will probably only specify one biz you might be doing work for.
Bonnie: They have the right to deny work for a certain biz if they choose to.
Alan: Not a contract, as they are not specifying the prices, just what they are allowing their local dealer to produce
Bonnie: Right.
Moderator: Audience member says: "Are most authorized letters acquired with a phone call, or do you have to request it in writing?"
Bonnie: Actually, most often it can be done with a phone call. Ask for the legal dept. Sometimes it can even be done by e-mail.
Alan: but as a rule, you shouldn't be the one doing the asking... it should be the dealer, or person asking you to embroider the logo
Bonnie: I agree Alan.
Moderator: Audience member says: "Alan, with the restrictions put in a letter, how does the company audit whether or not the restrictions were followed?"
Alan: Actually with the one we did that was very restrictive, we had to provide specific run results, and they even sent in an auditing company to verify.
Bonnie: Yes, and those that I've done, sometimes they send artwork that must be strictly adhered to.
Alan: It was a pain, and of course they wanted a cheap rate, and it ended up costing us a ton more in time to meet the requirements.
Alan: another lesson learned
Bonnie: And then they approve what you've done before it's even sewn.
Moderator: Audience member says: "What about different departments, in the same company?"
Bonnie: besides the legal dept.?
Alan: your letter may give you authorization for a limited use, or a blanket use... again it will depend on the letter authorization
Alan: Well once again that time has arrived to bring this portion of the event to a close.
Alan: That is the conclusion of tonight's event, a transcript will be posted to the Embroidery Industry Calendar within the hour
Alan: If you would like to contact Bonnie,
her email is: moonltd@aol.com
Alan: Or visit her website at:
Alan: http://www.DesignsByMoonlight.com
Alan: Thank you Bonnie... and see you next week for part 2
Bonnie: C-u next week. :-)
Alan: Thank you for your support of the EmbroideryMall.
Alan: Now everyone back to Latte's
The PalacePresents event ""Copyrights - part 1"" is over.
Thank you for attending.
Closing Log (June 22, 2004 10:54 PM)

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