Moderator: Welcome to tonight's special event:
"Exploring Sublimation For Embroiderers" with Cherie Derrick
Alan: Welcome
Alan: It's been awhile... and it's good to be back
Alan: Our guest tonight is
Alan: Cherie Derrick
Alan: with Encompass Technologies
Cherie: hello everyone
Alan: Her company specializes in full color dye sublimation imprinting
Alan: For all us embroiderers out there... what exactly is sublimation?
Alan: and how is it different than "screen printing?
Cherie: dye sublimation is a printing method. There are several ways to do it including screen printing.
Cherie: the dye sublimation most people use today is with inkjet printers
Alan: I know you have a presentation, but thought we needed to cover this basic point first
Alan: so is sublimation a "transfer"?
Cherie: no sublimation is the process of changing a solid into to gas without going through a solid state.
Alan: oh... boy you better start the presentation as you just lost me
Cherie: dye sublimation is dye particles going form a solid to a gas and back into a solid using heat and pressure
Cherie: that is the transfer :)
Cherie: ok let's get started
Alan: ok http://www.dyesub.org/articles/Latte/intro.jpg
Cherie: I am going to be talking mainly about inkjet dye sublimation since that is what the majority of people are using today. I will talk a little about laser sublimation but when I do I will specifically state "with laser dye sub".
Cherie: shall I post the link to slide one?
Moderator: it will be in the transcript
Cherie: Let's begin with the dry boring part and get it out of the way. This will help you understand what and how dye sublimation works.
Cherie: The Definition of Dye Sublimation:
Cherie: Dye is to impregnate color into a material. Those of you who are in your late 40's or older may remember the days that ladies used to dye their shoes to match their bridesmaid dresses. Or if you got tired of a yellow sweater you didn't just
Cherie: throw it out, you would dye it navy blue or black or if you wanted your yellow sweater green you might try to use a light blue dye (blue + yellow = green).
Cherie: When you dye your hair you know you can only dye it darker than the orig. color. If your hair is black you can not "dye" it blond. At that point you would need to remove the dark by bleaching it.
Cherie: The second word, sublimation is when a solid is changed to a gas without going through a liquid stage. In this case, the dye particle which is a solid is heated to the point where it turns to gas, the pressure of a heat press keeps the gas in
Cherie: place. The item you are pressing has to get to TG (glass transition) point at which time the dyes bond with the material. When you remove the heat, the gas dyes then turn back into a solid but are molecularly bonded with the poly material.
Moderator: http://www.dyesub.org/articles/Latte/products.jpg
Cherie: Dye sublimation only bonds with poly materials like:
Cherie: Polyester fabrics which include but are not limited to:
Cherie: -Moisture wicking fabric like CoolMax, EvapR8, Dri-Loc, Dri-Fit.
Cherie: - Soft L'ink which is a specially formulated fabric for dye sublimation that is 100% cotton inside and 100% poly outside
Cherie: - Polyester satin
Cherie: - Mouse pads with polyester fabric tops (which most have)
Cherie: - Neoprene (is also a poly material)
Cherie: - Nylon - Taslon
Cherie: Plastic products that can withstand the heat like certain sign vinyls and fiberglass reinforced plastic.
Cherie: Specially coated products like:
Cherie: ceramics
glass
marble
sandstone
aluminum (and other metal products)
hardboard products
Cherie: and even products like wood and leather although you have to do your own coating of these products at this time since there isn't anyone doing them (yet)
Cherie: Once you transfer your dyes to the products mentioned above they will be permanently attached to the poly material. In fabric that means you can even bleach the fabric and the dyes will not come out. For ceramics if for some reason
Cherie: the poly coating comes off of the ceramic the dyes will go with it.
Cherie: Most dye sublimation is not UV resistant, especially the dyes that are used in inkjet dye sublimation.
Cherie: Dye sublimation does NOT bond with cotton. There are poly papers and sprays you can add to the cotton that the dyes can bond with but the poly material washes out and/or bleeds/runs (some a lot quicker than others).
Cherie: Dye sublimation will work on 50/50 material (because the dyes will bond with the ½ that is polyester) but will be about ½ as bright after washing as using a 100%
Cherie: poly material. The higher the poly content the brighter the image will be. 85% and higher produces a very acceptable image.
Cherie: How You Do It:
Cherie: Using the dye sublimation inks (or toners in the case of laser dye sub) you print a mirror image onto paper that does not absorb the dye particles. You place your substrate (shirt, tile, etc.) on the heat press face up, you put your transfer on
Cherie: the substrate face down, you put an extra piece of paper over the transfer and use the heat press to transfer the image from the paper to the substrate. The heat normally used is 400 degrees although some types of sublimation uses
Cherie: much less heat. You can also reduce the heat needed for more delicate fabrics but in order to do that you will need to increase the time. The time you use depends on the substrate you are pressing, the heat you are using and the type
Cherie: of ink you are using. Once the proper heat and time has been reached you remove the transfer paper and you have a finished product.
Cherie: The Things you Need:
Cherie: The one question that gets asked time and time again is, "what is the best...?". You will first have to decide what is most important to you to determine what is the best for you. If you are single the best car for you might be a 2 door sports
Cherie: car or a small pickup truck. If you are a family of 6 the best car might be a van. The same applies to the equipment and supplies of dye sublimation. There are small presses for people who won't be doing a lot of pressing or want to take
Cherie: their dye sublimation on the road and there are large presses that you aren't going to want to move around much because they weigh over 100 lbs. Printers are the same way, you may only need 8" x 13" printing so you only need a small
Cherie: printer but if you need larger then you will need one of the larger printers. On the DSSI forum recently someone asked what was the best mugs to use. The first person who answered said "the best" was the Mogami mugs from QLT. When I
Cherie: asked why they thought that it was because of the style of the mug. I would never consider them "the best" because I think durability is more important than the style of the mug. So keep in mind when asking a question like that, "what is
Cherie: best" for someone else might not be what you want. Do your own research and make sure you know what your needs are before buying anything.
Cherie: The Computer Hardware and Software
Cherie: Most of you I expect already have a computer (or you wouldn't be here tonight) so all you need to know about that is get as much memory as you can afford and plenty of disk space.
Cherie: I recommend getting a high level graphics software package like Corel Draw and/or Adobe Photoshop and some type of training to go with it. A good place to
Cherie: get inexpensive online training on these software packages is http://www.lvsonline.com
Moderator: http://www.lvsonline.com/
Cherie: These two programs will interface with an ICC profile (something that most ink suppliers will have to go with their inks, it makes the color more closely match
Cherie: what you expect to get if your monitor and properly calibrated) which you will most likely need.
Cherie: Some inks do not have ICC profiles so if you are purchasing one of those you will be able to use other graphics programs like Paint Shop Pro, Microsoft Publisher or even print from a word processor like Microsoft Word.
Cherie: I'll discuss ICC profiles shortly.
Cherie: If you will be taking customer supplied files, I recommend you get several different graphic packages so that you will be able to take different file types.
Cherie: The Printer:
Cherie: The small format printers that are mainly used in dye sublimation are Epson brand. The most common ones used today are:
Cherie: Epson C82 which prints up to approximately 8.25" x 13" (the C82 has recently been discontinued and replaced with the C84. Only a few vendors have dye sub inks available for the C84)
Moderator: http://www.dyesub.org/articles/Latte/inkjetprinters.jpg
Cherie: Epson 1280 which prints up to approximately 13" x 19"
Cherie: Epson 3000 which prints up to approximately 16" x 21" (the 3000 will be discontinued in the next 6 months and replaced with the Epson 4000)
Cherie: Epson 7600 which is less used by many because of it's cost but it does prints up to 24" wide by 100' (limited by roll length and software application)
Cherie: The other common types of printers used for dye sublimation is certain laser printers. The magnetic/electrostatic laser printers with dye sublimation toners are best for gold, silver and bronze metals. The oil fuser based laser printers with
Cherie: dye sublimation toners are best for soft products like mouse pads, shirts and can be used on some ceramic products. If anyone is interested in this type of dye
Cherie: sublimation printing, I can address this (a little) in one of the future chats, just let Alan, Sue, Rick or Lisa know.
Moderator: http://www.dyesub.org/articles/Latte/laserprinters.jpg
Cherie: The Ink:
Cherie: There are a variety of dye sublimation inks on the market today in a pretty wide range of prices. A few years ago Sublijet by Sawgrass was the only ink you could buy. Just so you are aware, there is a patent lawsuit that is currently
Cherie: There are a variety of dye sublimation inks on the market today in a pretty wide range of prices. A few years ago Sublijet by Sawgrass was the only ink you could buy. Just so you are aware, there is a patent lawsuit that is currently ongoing between
Cherie: Sawgrass Systems (Sublijet) and Tropical Graphics (Artainium). Today some of the more well know brands are: Artainium UV+, ColorRite, ColorStar, Rotech, Sublijet XL, Sublijet IQ.
Cherie: Ink Delivery System
Cherie: The standard ink delivery in an inkjet printer is cartridges. The cartridges for the smaller printers (C82, C84, 1280) are very, very small so the price per page for your transfers will be very high.
Moderator: http://www.dyesub.org/articles/Latte/bulkinksystems.jpg
Cherie: Most suppliers are selling bulk ink delivery systems which greatly reduce the price per page for your transfers. I highly recommend that anyone that will be
Cherie: printing sublimation on a regular basis get a bulk ink system very soon after you start doing dye sublimation.
Cherie: The Heat
Cherie: There are 5 basic types of flat heat presses. The "hobby" presses, a "standard" clam shell press with a fixed lower platen, a clam shell press with a floating lower platen, a swinger press and draw press. Presses can vary in price from around
Moderator: http://www.dyesub.org/articles/Latte/presses.jpg
Cherie: There are 5 basic types of flat heat presses. The "hobby" presses, a "standard" clam shell press with a fixed lower platen, a clam shell press with a floating lower platen, a swinger press and draw press. Presses can vary in price from around
Cherie: sorry :)
Cherie: $250 to several thousand dollars if you get into the ones run with air compressors or roller type of presses for larger format pressing.
Cherie: The "hobby presses" are just what they sound like. They are meant for the hobbyist, a lower volume, small format user. People who go on the road with their business like the hobby press because of it's size, weight
Cherie: and low electrical usage. The main things to look for in this type of press is the temperature needs to reach 400 degrees and the pressure
Cherie: adjustment should be fully adjustable (not just one or two positions). Price for these are usually in the $250 - $399 range.
Cherie: The standard clam shell press is the least expensive of the presses (except for maybe the hobby presses) and it works well for things that don't have much height to them. Garments are no problem. Mousepads
Cherie: one at a time are easily done also. You can do tiles in them but it is tricky. Price for these are usually in the $595 - $1295 range depending on size and brand.
Cherie: The clam shell with a floating lower platen is what I would call the middle of the road in the way of cost and functionality. You can press thicker items easily up to about 1" in thickness. Although I have never used one
Cherie: of these presses, I think if I were starting out, this is the press I would buy if I didn't want to spend the money for a swinger. The price range on this type of press is around $725 - $995 depending on size.
Cherie: The swingers and the draw press are what most people prefer. (The hobby presses are also designed as swinger presses .) These presses can press most items easily. The swinger, the top heat platen swings
Cherie: either right or left out of the way when your are not pressing. The draw press, the lower platen pulls out from under the top heat platen. There is a new small (15" x 15" which isn't too shabby of a size) platen one out for
Cherie: $625 but most range in price from around $1100 - $2300 for the 16" x 20" and 18" x 20", with air operated ones going on up in price from there.
Cherie: In addition to flat presses there are presses specially designed for hats, mugs, tiles and plates. Tiles can easily be done on your swinger, draw or floating platen press. Plates can also be done on a flat press with the use of a "plate puck". A
Cherie: plate puck is a piece of metal material that you place on the bottom of the plate and press with your heat press. I do not know if this will work with all presses or not.
Cherie: There is an excellent article on DyeSub.org on the different mug presses that can be purchased. Part 1 of the article is in the "newsletter" in pdf format. Part 2 of
Cherie: the article can be found under "Reviews". Both parts are in the "Articles" section of the site and were written by Larry Cohn.
Cherie: There are also mug wraps, shot glass wraps, dog bowl wraps and tile presses which can be use in an oven.
Cherie: The Paper:
Cherie: The best thing is to start off with using whatever paper is recommended by your supplier. Once you have experience with the process you can then venture out and try different papers. You will also need inexpensive blank paper to lay over
Cherie: your transfer paper to keep the sublimation off of your press. Some people use Teflon sheets but I find that paper works better most of the time.
Cherie: Blank products
Cherie: Basically check to make sure that the product you purchase is for the type of sublimation you are doing especially when it comes to ceramic products. Make
Cherie: sure when you buy ceramic products you specify that you are doing "inkjet sublimation".
Cherie: A few of the Options
Cherie: Paper Cutter: This is one of those things that is worth spending more then a few dollars on. An inexpensive one will do at first but as you start doing more and
Cherie: more you will want one of the professional types. Many people recommend the professional photo cutters.
Cherie: Scanner: This is really close to being a must, but there are people that may not need one.
Cherie: Digital camera: These definitely come in handy if you are doing photos for websites of your products or photographs of your customers to put onto items too.
Cherie: Heat tape: Personally, I can't live without heat tape but someone out there might be. This is used to tape transfers to everything, shirts, mugs, plaques, tiles, etc. herie: to keep the transfer from shifting when you press. A tape dispenser for these large 3" rolls is a very nice thing to have too.
Cherie: Metal Cutter: If you're planning on doing a lot of awards this is a must have. You can get your metal pre-cut and custom cut from some of the distributors but if you stay in the business your going to want to have one.
Cherie: So that is about it in the way of what you will need. There are some miscellaneous things like a circle cutter, cutting mat, metal t-square ruler, glue, Teflon sheet, Teflon pillows, spray tack, UV protective spray etc. that you may 1
Cherie: find helpful in producing products but these things may or may not be necessary depending on what items you will be pressing.
Cherie: All of the products, except for the graphics software, scanner, digital camera and several of the miscellaneous items, mentioned in this chat can be found on the Industry Links page at www.dyesub.org
Cherie: Next week I plan on covering presses and wraps used to produce ceramics unless there is something else that you all would be more interested in hearing more about.
Cherie: The following two weeks I have not yet scheduled and was hoping to get some feedback from you as to what you would like to learn about.
Moderator: http://www.dyesub.org
Moderator: http://www.encompasstech.com
Moderator: http://www.create-a-badge.com
Cherie: I hope you found this informative :)
Alan: Whew.. that was a lot of information to absorb
Alan: Glad we have a transcript
Cherie: Yes. I know it's a lot but that is really the basics.
Alan: Let's see if we have any questions from the audience
Moderator: Audience member says: "It sounds as though I would need to find a niche in order to know what type of equipment I would need to get started. Is that true?"
Cherie: It would be helpful if you already know who your audience is yes. You can get started (most of us did) without knowing that but expect you will make some bad purchase decisions along the way.
Cherie: My bad purchase decision that I lived with for the first 5 years was a 15" x 15" clam shell press.
Moderator: Audience member says: "The different types of presses, do the flat ones multi-task? Do they do flatgoods, mouse pads, etc.?"
Cherie: Most flat presses only press flat goods, like shirts, mousepads, award plates, etc. There is one press made by Geo Knight called
Cherie: a combo press where you can change the heating elements to accomodate hats, mugs and plates
Cherie: People who have purchased this press usually end up buying specialty presses.
Moderator: Audience member says: "when you bought the 15" press... why was that a bad decision"
Cherie: Very soon after I started I got a large customer that was purchasing between 200 and 400 glass plaques a month. I could only press one at a time on my clam shell. I really needed a swinger to do this work and when I got one I was able to press 4
Cherie: at a time.
Moderator: Audience member says: "I have an Epson Photo Stylus 820. Is this printer equivalent to the C82 by any chance?"
Cherie: That is a much older printer than the C82. I think some of the ink vendors may still carry dye sublimation ink cartridges for that printer. You would need to call around and ask.
Moderator: Audience member says: "How could you have know about this cusomter before you purchased the wrong press?"
Moderator: Audience member says: "For finding possible ink vendors for the 820... who could I call?"
Cherie: You are right, I couldn't have. I think if I would have done a little more homework I would have realized that a 15" x 15" press would not give me much room for production of anything (tiles, mouse pads, etc.) One at a time is slow work when with a
Cherie: larger swinger press much more production is possible.
Moderator: Audience member says: "what is the shelf life of the inks?"
Cherie: go to www.dyesub.org, click on the Industry Links page and look under Dye Sublimation Inkjet Inks. There are about 30 suppliers in the USA and a few overseas listed there.
Cherie: Shelf life of the inks depends on they type of inks. Most suppliers say they are good for 6 to 12 months.
Moderator: Audience member says: "You mentioned a metal cutter. What does this consist of?"
Cherie: It is a piece of equipment.
Cherie: The one I have looks like a heavy duty paper cutter
Cherie: there are different types.
Moderator: Audience member says: "how thick is the metal?"
Cherie: thin. Most is about .02"
Moderator: Audience member says: "A Canadian firm is suggesting sublimation on 100 cotton. How is this being done?"
Cherie: You can buy different metals but most of the trophy and award plaques are done with aluminum.
Cherie: It is being done with a "prep" of some type. Is this inkjet?
Moderator: Audience member says: "inkjet as far as I know"
Cherie: The prep is polyner that is added to the shirt so that the dyes bond with that polymer. As that polymer washes out of the shirt so will the dyes.
Alan: Cherie... well I think that was the fastest hour ever
Cherie: It also adds a "feel" to the shirt.
Cherie: wow. It has really been an hour?
Alan: Thank you for all the information
Alan: we will post a transcript with the links in about an hour
Cherie: No problem. I look forward to hearing what you all think about this :)
Alan: It will be a link on the chat schedule
Alan: Thank you and we look forward to seeing you next week.
Cherie: Great! Thank you all for coming tonight!
Alan: Good night... and now let's return to Latte's

Closing Log (Feb 17, 2004 10:38:28PM)

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